A year later, Sounds like the 4E gravy train has Died: Goodman Games to do Dungeon Crawl Classics RPG

A year ago I wrote this: Sounds like the 4E gravy train has slowed: Goodman Games may support The Pathfinder Roleplaying Game? Now I hear about Goodman Games is doing this: Dungeon Crawl Classics RPG. What can I say about this? Simple: The truth is always revealed in time. Thank you Paizo and Pathfinder for existing and doing the products I want to support because I love what you did. Do I wish bad things from Mr. Goodman? No.  I want more people in this industry, not less. But he made the choice he wanted and got his results. I did the same. I guess we are both in the same place, just with very different roads that brought us here.  Talk to you later...

Top Tenp Post at In The Mind of Mad Man from December 11, 2009

 I thought you find it interesting what are the top topics that have been at this website since I started tracking it with Google Analytics.  Enjoy!

1. Sounds like the 4E gravy train has slowed: Goodman Games may support The Pathfinder Roleplaying Game?
2. Working with RPG Writers - A look behind the curtain to see how some really feel about you...
3. The Red Skull Ultimate Avengers Version
4. My name is death and the end is near...
5. Hot Artist of the Week - James Ryman
6. I might have to kiss Erik Mona in the mouth over this...
7. A Father's Day Gift from LPJ Design...
8. Pirates of the Bronze Sky to be released July 4th, 2011...
9. Sounds like Marcus King is trying to make excuses for RPG retailers' lack of sales
10. What your future Big Bad Evil Gal for your Pathfinder game looks like... 

Did you know about Goodman Games Private $5 RPG Sale for Limited Time Only! So how about those 4E sales?

I got this in my email and I thought some of you would find this interesting:

Hello gamers!

Shhh! We're running a private sale! As a special offer not publicized on our main web site, we are running a private $5 sale! Many of our titles from 2008 and 2009 are priced at only $5, including systems-neutral titles, 4E character guides, 4E adventure modules, and stand-alone games. This is a great chance to stock up on anything you missed in the last few years - and because you're on our mailing list, you're lucky enough to find out. The sale runs through August 31, so act now! You can find the sale by clicking here - but keep this email, as there aren't any front-page links to this special offer!

Thanks,

Goodman Games

First I thought it was a nice thing to do.  Then, I thought looks like he is trying to sell off the last of his 4E printed material for some quick cash.  I mean some of those discounts are at a 75% off the normal retail price.  If 4e is selling that well, why would you need to take that deep of a discount to move product? That would not make sense, unless you just had to get rid of the product.  So if you are a fan of Goodman Games, now is the time to help him make sale to keep him afloat, until he start releasing his Pathfinder product.  I wonder what DCC is he going to release first?  We will see.  Talk to you later...

Say what ever happened with Goodman Games and their support of Paizo and Pathfinder after their 4E fiasco…

I was look through some of my stats in Google Analytics and I notice an old thread, Sounds like the 4E gravy train has slowed: Goodman Games may support The Pathfinder Roleplaying Game? that still get a lot of hits. And it got me thinking, whatever happened with Goodman Games and doing products for the Pathfinder line? Does anyone know anything? Just wondering people. Talk to you later…

Sounds like the 4E gravy train has slowed: Goodman Games may support The Pathfinder Roleplaying Game?

I saw this over at Paizo’s boards and I have to just say it, this is totally revisionist history BULLSHIT! After telling everyone how good sale are with 4E, you NOW want to support Pathfinder? OK, let’s take this one step at a time…

“2001-2004: 80%+ of RPG'ers were playing 3E. “

OK This is true.

“2004-2005: Some gamers fell off between 3E and 3.5, but still 75% playing 3.5. “

OK this is true.

“2005-2007: D20 variants multiply. Mutants & Masterminds, Iron Heroes, Arcana Evolved, Castles & Crusades, Conan, others. Most of the market is playing some version of 3E, but it's no longer all D&D. Various d20 publishers begin to release their own stand-alone RPG's (e.g., Runequest).”

This is true and don’t forget you are part of this group who wanted to develop your own D20 variant system. Does Wicked Fantasy Factory, Etherscope, DragonMech or Xcrawl ring a bell?

“2008: Most, but not all, of the RPG market converts to 4E. Market is now split between 4E and many varieties of 3E holdouts. Other systems proliferate, including Hackmaster Basic and the 1E retro-clones. "Old-school" goes mainstream. Goodman Games remains the only "d20 company" still primarily supporting WotC D&D.”

I am sorry but WTF?!?!??!?!?! Only “D20 Company” still primarily supporting WotC D&D. Joseph, I respect you as a business man and gamer, but that is complete bullshit and you know it. When you heard about 4E you we down with WOTC quicker than a $2 whore. Looks like some revisionist history bullshit to me.

“2009: Pathfinder releases. Fantasy RPG market is now split between 4E and Pathfinder, with another big chunk split to the other stand-alone RPG's (Castles & Crusades, Runequest, Fantasycraft, upcoming Dragon Age, etc.), and another chunk shopping online in the retro-clone market (which I personally have a fondness for). “

…And with that split, Paizo got support from several third party publishers who saw that Paizo did actually like it customers and third party publishers. What a crazy concept. Anyone willing to sign the 1st GSL? Anyone?

“2010: What's a module publisher to do?”

Well I supported 3.5 and then Paizo and Pathfinder, so I don’t have to ask this question. I just put out product.

“My primary love remains adventures, but the market is so fragmented that the customers who played DCC modules in 2004 are now playing 6 different systems.”

CRAP!! See this is the part that makes me laugh, those people were playing those systems back then in 2004 too. It is just you were making so much money with 3.5 you didn’t care about them. Now that 4E didn’t make the splash that you planned on and committed your entire company’s future to, you have to do some back pedaling to keep that cashflow going.

“Here's something I've been thinking about. What if a DCC were written in "native 4E" but there were downloads to support other systems? Or...what if the DCC had generic stats ("Orc, 6 hp, axe, chainmail")...and ALL detailed stats were available as a download? So if you play 4E you download the 4E stats PDF...if you play Pathfinder you download the Pathfinder stats PDF...etc. Tell me what you think.”

I think you made a mistake by supporting WOTC so early with 4E. I think you went full board with them trying to grab a section of the market. I think your sales were not what you expected, plus WOTC leaving RPGNow and the US recession didn’t help Goodman’s cashflow. 2010 looks a lot different then you though it would in 2007. I think it is a good thing long term for the industry if Goodman Games supports Paizo and Pathfinder. But don’t give me this revisionist history bullshit. You made a business decision, supported someone and it didn’t work out as you planned. Now you have changed your mind and want to make some money supporting something else. Stop trying to put a spin doctor on this and just be truthful on this. We have all made mistakes on who or what we supported in business, including me. Build a bridge and get over it. Talk to you later…

A change in the air...and with cashflow with WOTC?

Recently, two well known PDF supporter of WOTC 4E (Alluria Publishing and Alea Publishing Group) just release several Pathfinder Roleplaying supported products. I really don't know that much about Alluria Publishing, but I have been a fan of Alea Publishing Group since I saw their Feudual Lords Campaign Setting material. They are exactly what you want to see in a new publisher: interesting new product ideas, great design work and beautiful artwork. I was a little sad when I heard they were going to support WOTC 4E exclusively with the GSL but I understood why it made sense at the time. But as of late, Aluria just released their 3rd product for Pathfinder Roleplaying Game based off of their WOTC 4E material and now I have to wonder, what is going on. Why would these two companies who supported WOTC 4E, now being supportive of the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game? Now they both could just like the system and what to support it. But I think this has more to do with WOTC 4E then actually these two companies.

Back on June 19th, Joseph Goodman of Goodman Games said in a post, "4E is doing well, very well." I never really believed that. It is hard to do "well, very well" in the middle of a recession and with nearly 10% of the US population out of work. That little fact might effect sales GREATLY. I know it effected my on RPGNow.com over the last year. Now with my Pathfinder Roleplaying Game sales doing much greater than expected (Like 3.0/3.5 OGL in the early years) I think Alluria Publishing and Alea Publishing Group just wanted to cover themselves with a little extra safety of the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game. Nothing wrong about that and it is good business to do it so I am all for it. But I have to wonder, how far down are WOTC 4E sales to look at the direct opposition of them to help you make money? Due to the GSL it is somewhat difficult to support the GSL and the 3.5 OGL/Pathfinder Roleplaying Game at the same time. So I have to wonder is it even tougher times ahead of publisher who supported WOTC 4E?

All I can say is, Thank you Paizo! Thank you of all the great work you have done supporting third party publishers and the OGL.